More Islamic Idiots
Fundies are Nuts
"The whole purpose for this life is for us to be tested, to believe in god without seeing him and without seeing the angels around us and things that would make our test , not a test anymore if we see angels for exemple the whole purpose fall apart"
With H Rap Pringle
Da_Shield: hello
h_rap_pringle: there
Da_Shield: I was answering but you left so you dont mind if I stay here in pm for a moment to finish the discussion as I said
h_rap_pringle: about what
Da_Shield: when you read quran you will find heavens in plural in many places
h_rap_pringle: so what the Sky is plural in hebrew too
Da_Shield: in this case it is talking about all of them
h_rap_pringle: so is water
Da_Shield: in arabic I mean
h_rap_pringle: so is sheep
Da_Shield: the word is used for many places the same word everything outside of the planet earth and not attached to it from the atmosphere to sidrat al muntaha and space
h_rap_pringle: where does it say that in the koran?
Da_Shield: in many verses
h_rap_pringle:But nary a word about anything not attached to the earth that can't fall down if Allah lets it
Da_Shield: you have verses when it's talking about the universe as a whole you find samawat
h_rap_pringle: Which ones
Da_Shield: plural form well sec
h_rap_pringle: so/ the koran says 7 heavens, another borrowing from the greeks and persians as distorted by the unscientific Rabbis
Da_Shield: [Al-Baqara:117][ Originator of the heavens and the earth. When He decrees a matter, He only says to it, "Be," and it is.
h_rap_pringle: Mohammad's fretting about the sky falling does not sound as if intended as irony. The Kaabaa, the sacred structure about which Muslim pilgrims circumambulate [a great word], contains a black stone which appears to be a meteorite.
Da_Shield: most of the verses there is always heavens seperated from earth
h_rap_pringle: Shield, perhaps you've not been paying attention for the last 200 years
Da_Shield: and plural refere to all the heavens
h_rap_pringle: the EARTH was not formed at the same time as the universe
h_rap_pringle: Originator of the heavens and the earth <<- based on copying the bible
Da_Shield: nor did quran say that but it's from the same source
h_rap_pringle: Shield it's from copying
Da_Shield: the same god
h_rap_pringle: Shield you can tell by the errors
Da_Shield: excelent
h_rap_pringle: Shield that's how teachers ferret out plagiarism
Da_Shield: give me some errors
h_rap_pringle: Shield I just told you Originator of the heavens and the earth is incorrect
Da_Shield: no thats correct god created everything
h_rap_pringle: Shield you see you apparently do not have a very good understanding of modern cosmology
Da_Shield: that includes the heavens and the earth no it's you who try to make the verse say what it doesnt say
h_rap_pringle: Shield , no the Earth Acreted from the protostellar cloud
Da_Shield: quran is perfectly precise
h_rap_pringle: Shield no the Koran is wrong, you see the earth was not formed untill 10 billion years after the universe started
Da_Shield: ok give me a sec looking for a verse
h_rap_pringle: Shield , when you try to find science in the koran you're doomed to fail and it makes you look like a fool
Da_Shield: well I challenge you
h_rap_pringle: Shield go read COSMOS by Carl Sagan, or any other good book on the subject
Da_Shield: you say that Koran says earth and heavens were created at the same time
h_rap_pringle: Shield you see islamic apologetic is based on the IGNORANCE of the public
Da_Shield: and thats not true
h_rap_pringle: Shield that is what the verse says and other places in the Koran it says that Allah created the earth first
h_rap_pringle: Shield it is an all pervading flat earth/young earth book
Da_Shield: This doesnt work to just make claims, the claim comes with proof to back it up: btw your objection about rain from heaven
Da_Shield: [An-Nabaa:14][ And sent down, from the rain clouds, pouring water]
Da_Shield: [Athariyat:2][ And those [clouds] carrying a load [of water]]
h_rap_pringle: Shield Allah does not send down rain, rain forms when clouds become super saturated Shield you see Science trumps religion always
Da_Shield: LOL
h_rap_pringle: 2:29 He it is Who created for you all that is in the earth. Then turned He to the heaven, and fashioned it as seven heavens.
h_rap_pringle: SO you see the KORAN thinks that the earth was made BEFORE THE HEAVENS
h_rap_pringle: 41:9-12 Say (O Muhammad, unto the idolaters): Disbelieve ye verily in Him Who created the earth in two Days ... Then turned He to the heaven ... Then He ordained them seven heavens in two Days
h_rap_pringle: two days?
Da_Shield: not our days
h_rap_pringle: Are ye the harder to create, or is the heaven that He built? He raised the height thereof and ordered it; 79:27-30
Da_Shield: day is a cycle
h_rap_pringle: Shield a day is 24 hours long, please do not try to redefine words, it will not help you
Da_Shield: I am not
h_rap_pringle: the point is that the KORAN thinks that the Earth was created before the heavens
Da_Shield: your knowledge of quran is so little it's actualy hard to explain it all
h_rap_pringle: Shield does the verse say that? I can look up 4 translations
Da_Shield: and you apparently cannot read correctly because you keep assuming thing that the verses doesnt say
Da_Shield: you insert your own understanding to a verse that doesnt say it
h_rap_pringle: Shield it says clearly that the earth was made in two days
h_rap_pringle: what understanding do you need?
Da_Shield: yes
Da_Shield: it's talking that the universe was created in 6 days
h_rap_pringle: Science on the other hand knows that the earth took millions of years to acrete
Da_Shield: not our days
h_rap_pringle: Shield the unvierse? AFTER THE EARTH
Da_Shield: the universe including earth
h_rap_pringle: it does not matter, sheild, your problem is that the KORAN is not describing anything accurately
Da_Shield: but the earth took 1/3 of the time to be finished meaning that the age of this planet is 1/3 of the univers
h_rap_pringle: 41:9 Say (O Muhammad, unto the idolaters): Disbelieve ye verily in Him Who created the earth in two Days, and ascribe ye unto Him rivals ? He (and none else) is the Lord of the Worlds.
h_rap_pringle: 41:10 He placed therein firm hills rising above it, and blessed it and measured therein its sustenance in four Days, alike for who ask;
h_rap_pringle: 41:11 Then turned He to the heaven when it was smoke, and said unto it and unto the earth: Come both of you, willingly or loth. They said: We come, obedient.
Da_Shield: what is your probleme with these verses?
h_rap_pringle: 41:12 Then He ordained them seven heavens in two Days and inspired in each heaven its mandate; and We decked the nether heaven with lamps, and rendered it inviolable.
h_rap_pringle: Shield what is your problem that you don't know the problem
Da_Shield: lol
Da_Shield: show me the problem
h_rap_pringle: the lowest heaven with lamps, you gotta be kidding
Da_Shield: stars
h_rap_pringle: Shield do you know how far the stars are and are they on a dome?
Da_Shield: lol
Da_Shield: this univers of ours
h_rap_pringle: Shield go to a website showing the nearest stars are they on a dome?
Da_Shield: what do you mean ?
h_rap_pringle: are they on the lowest of 7 domes over a flat earth?
Da_Shield: no
h_rap_pringle: then the KORAN is wrong
Da_Shield: you knowledge about islam is riddiculous in the isra and miraj when the prophet we believe he went to heaven
h_rap_pringle: Shield the MIRAJ, a haditth invented long after Mohammad's death
Da_Shield: it's mentioned in quran >.
h_rap_pringle: Yes and so is at the same time the Al Aksa Mosque built in 697 60 years after Mohammad's death proving it's an ANACHRONISM from long after that. you must be kidding he went to heaven , the 7 domes over the flat earth Shield it is mentioned in the Koran showing that it was added later
Da_Shield: lol
h_rap_pringle: Shield if it had been in the Koran from Mohammad it would have been put on the Dome of the Rock
Da_Shield: what is this dome you are talking about
h_rap_pringle: Shield you have one verse that is outstandingly anachronistic and not found on the Dome of the Rock in Jerusalem
Da_Shield: what about it ?
h_rap_pringle:
h_rap_pringle the verse says that Mohamamd rode burak to the AL AKSA
h_rap_pringle: when was AL AKSA built?
Da_Shield: told you when you make claims proves them you posted 5 verses and instead of saying what's the problem with them you jump to the dome that has nothing to do with
h_rap_pringle: SHIELD the AL AKSA was built in 697 64 years after the death of MOhamamd
Da_Shield: yes, and mentioned 1400 years ago
h_rap_pringle: so we know from archaeology that Mohammad could not have flown to the Alaksa
Da_Shield: how funny
h_rap_pringle: you are caught in an anachronism and a stupidism as there are no flying donkeys
Da_Shield: when the prophet said that he was still in Mecca they were very few
Da_Shield: way to go, to prophecise that it will be named al aqsa
h_rap_pringle: Shield nope the verse was added later, there is nothing in the context that explains it
Da_Shield: lol
h_rap_pringle: Shield then it is double screwed up. Shield you see you're not making up excuses that fly [pun intended]
Da_Shield: is this how you prove your claims ? suppositions ?
h_rap_pringle: Shield how far are the stars?
Da_Shield: very far
h_rap_pringle: how does burak fly to or past them?
Da_Shield: special creature like angels
h_rap_pringle is it magic, or shear bullsheet
Da_Shield: doesn't angels fly through them ?
h_rap_pringle: Shield there are no angels, that is stupidstition
h_rap_pringle: Shield angels are an invention just like jinn
Da_Shield: are you asking me about something based on belief to prove it to you ?: thats the unknown thats parts when you get along with the message
Da_Shield: you accept things you dont see like the day of jdugement
Da_Shield: angels and stories of old prophets
h_rap_pringle: Shield I accept none of those
Da_Shield: hell paradise
h_rap_pringle: hell is imaginary
Da_Shield: yes and thats normal
h_rap_pringle: Shield all of that is baloney
Da_Shield: you need first to establish the authenticity of the message and it's source when you are convinced
Da_Shield: then you enter the faith and accept the part of the unknown of the religion like angels
h_rap_pringle: Shield where does it say what Mohamamd did on his flying donkey in the Koran?
Da_Shield: dont get the question
h_rap_pringle: Shield you believe in the miraj, why?
Da_Shield: because , iv read quran, and the life of the prophet, I had proofs without a doubt that he was a true prophet and that quran is the word of god
Da_Shield: from then I accepted that buraq was created specificly for that isra event
h_rap_pringle: Shield I have proof from the very same sources that no only was he not a prophet, that he was a liar and a conman
h_rap_pringle: Shield how far are the closest stars?
Da_Shield: now we talk: now you need to prove what you claim and my job is to explain to you what you did miss
Da_Shield: and either I coinvince you or you convince me
h_rap_pringle: Shield , what is the source of the miraj story and why is it missing on the dome of the rock?
Da_Shield: moraj mean descent
Da_Shield: miraj
Da_Shield: sira ascension
h_rap_pringle: Miraj means dream
Da_Shield: meaning when he went up and came down
h_rap_pringle: Shield up and down have no meaning in the universe
Da_Shield: mirage you mean
Da_Shield: isra, the ascension of the prophet to sidrat al muntaha ( the end of the heavens )
Da_Shield: miraj, descent of the prophet back to earth
h_rap_pringle: Shield the heaven has no end, when you look out you go back in time
Da_Shield: I dont know what the dome keep coming up
h_rap_pringle: Shield the Koran says that stars are decorations on the lowest heaven to be used as missiles against devils
Da_Shield: actualy in our belief when you read all the quran and authentic hadiths
h_rap_pringle: ther are no authentic hadith, they are all hearsay we can only look at what they say
Da_Shield: you will know that space is a lower heaven , at the end of it there is a gate and you get into another heaven at the end of it another gate
h_rap_pringle: Shield do you know anything about cosmology? you seem to have the flat earth model locked inside your brain
Da_Shield: you are asking about unseen things
h_rap_pringle: Shield they are not unseen, if you have the right telescope
Da_Shield: lol
h_rap_pringle: Shield we know a priori that the Koran is wrong about the heavens
Da_Shield: you cannot see it with a telscope... god didnt make the universe and had probleme with space
h_rap_pringle: Shield, do you know anything about the universe?
Da_Shield: not enough space to make it far enough for us to not know
h_rap_pringle: Shield how big the the Milky Way?
Da_Shield: wow it's like talking to a kid
h_rap_pringle:
Shield , you see your head is wrapped up in your mythology
Da_Shield: you understanding is really naive, like a child from a primitive culture
h_rap_pringle: Shield , how big is the Milky Way
Da_Shield: the whole purpose for this life is for us to be tested
h_rap_pringle: Shield do you know what the milky way is?
Da_Shield: to believe in god without seeing him and without seeing the angels around us and things that would make our test , not a test anymore if we see angels for exemple the whole purpose fall apart
h_rap_pringle: Shield it seems that your faith, based on nothing but lies is tested by facts and there are no angels surrounding us; Shield FACTS like how far are the stars do not make it into your head
Da_Shield: life is made in way
h_rap_pringle: Shield there are NO ANGELS, that is why you can't see them
Da_Shield: that for us to believe in him ( god) without seeing him or seeing things obvious of his existance
h_rap_pringle: Shield there are NO JINN, that is why you can't see them
Da_Shield: and yet just by using our mind and the inner nature he gave us
h_rap_pringle: Shield that's called a brain fade
Da_Shield: to believe in him, recognize the message and do good and avoid evil the whole purpose
Da_Shield: it's not to look in a telescope and see angels flying
h_rap_pringle: Shield no, it isn't the whole purpose, it s the reason Islam creates poverty
Da_Shield: thats pure stupidity; no
h_rap_pringle: Shield you can't bring yourself to admit that the reason you can't seem them is they do not exist
Da_Shield: if you read history - read history
h_rap_pringle: Shiled history tells us that the claims made for the KORAN are apologetic noise
Da_Shield: the history of the lands when muslims ruled by sharia by islam you have 1200 years of history
h_rap_pringle: Shield when the immams clamped down that was the end of progress and I see they done a good job on you, they removed part of your brain
Da_Shield: islam created wealth, and created a great civilisation while europe was on the dark ages now you look at today, when no country is under sharia and most of the muslim lands were colonised in ww1 and ww2
h_rap_pringle: Shield the 300 year period called the islamic golden age was cut short not by the Chistians, but by the muslims
Da_Shield: divided and resources stolen and to prevent the rise of islam they made sure to put dictators puppet
h_rap_pringle: Shield is islam was superior why was scientific progress spearheaded by the west?
Da_Shield: since they couldnt stay on the land that your ignorance of history
h_rap_pringle: the facts are that centuries of islamic rule impoverished islam
Da_Shield: look how knowledge entered europe
h_rap_pringle: Shield why was it the west conquering islamic lands instaed of the opposite
Da_Shield: and look at the country during islam and after secularism
h_rap_pringle: Shield the muslims preserved the knowledge of the greeks persians and indians, and then dropped the ball
Da_Shield: lol
Da_Shield: this is new
h_rap_pringle: Shield ask youself whey did they abdicate progress?
Da_Shield: this happened in the last 200 yearsthis switch it was the opposite before then
h_rap_pringle: Shield why was it europe that invented math beyond algebra
Da_Shield: lol
h_rap_pringle: no it happen in 1200 ad, and islam never recovered and it can't with the type of ignorance you have shown me
Da_Shield: 800 years ago ? google islam 1200 ad untill the ww1 otoman empire was a major power and they couldnt have won against muslims if the empire havent been splitinto small country to be easy to colonise