Featuring ezra_ben_yechezkel

Islamic Answers Fail Again

You never get any messages from Allah

By_the_Pen: ok ezra , ill try to answer you http://prophetictimeline.com

By_the_Pen: there busy with things

ezra_ben_yechezkel: I find that listening to people who spout out arabic and think that means something gives me a headache

ezra_ben_yechezkel: It means nothign to me

By_the_Pen: well thats why it helps to know it. lol

ezra_ben_yechezkel: It halps to know english in an english room

By_the_Pen: its like sitting with chinese ppl without knowing chinese and yelling i dont understand you

ezra_ben_yechezkel: You ask them politely to speak in English

ezra_ben_yechezkel: USING the koran alone recreated the bible's time line

By_the_Pen: no , its there room, the book of revelation = quran was in arabic, there talkign about quran

ezra_ben_yechezkel: Can you do it or is it even possible?

By_the_Pen: not exactly

By_the_Pen: if u understand the arabic in depth, you can understand the infallable nature of the quran

ezra_ben_yechezkel: So this tells us that the Koran is incomplete and Incomprehensible, no matter what language it is in

By_the_Pen: no that doesnt make the quran incomplete, or incomprehensible

ezra_ben_yechezkel: WHen I read 4 translations of the Koran doen by official muslims I find there are variations and that none of them is infalible

By_the_Pen: everyone in the world can learn the quran

By_the_Pen: if u hear ppl reciting the quran is the same no matter what country its all the same ppl understand it

ezra_ben_yechezkel: Actually there are inherent problems with it as I told you before

By_the_Pen: but not so with the actual language of the ppl

By_the_Pen: the problem is the english language is a bastard language

ezra_ben_yechezkel: USING the koran alone try to recreate the bible's time line

By_the_Pen: its mix of everything thus is not as comprehensive as arabic

By_the_Pen: the koran is not the bible nor is the bible the quran

ezra_ben_yechezkel: Scholars tell me that the Koran is full of borrowed words too, that is not a strong argument

ezra_ben_yechezkel: AND the koran is simply wrong, and that is a problem

By_the_Pen: there are lessons and storys that are the same but its no were close, there are things in the quran in the same stories that corrects them and explained it better then the bible

ezra_ben_yechezkel: Why do you think that there has to be 4-5 version of moses and the stick? when it was AARON and the stick?

By_the_Pen: have u read the quran?

ezra_ben_yechezkel: and the stick didn't urn into a snake, but a crocodile

By_the_Pen: i dont think you have u clearly havent read the quran

By_the_Pen: www.quranexplorer.com/quran < check it out whenever

ezra_ben_yechezkel: WHy is it that there is no order to the Koran and even within suras it jumps from one topic to another garbling each in the process?

By_the_Pen: there is a distict diffrence

ezra_ben_yechezkel: And why does the KORAN copy from the Jewish Talmud and Christian apochryfal tales, not realizing that these tales were fiction?

By_the_Pen: lol of course there is, u have to read something called uloom al quran, the sciences of Quran, one of the science of the quran is how the quran was ordered and how it was reveals and when etc.

By_the_Pen: the quran is not chronological

ezra_ben_yechezkel: You can tell when a book is plagiaristic by tracing out the copy paste errors

ezra_ben_yechezkel: AND the quran is not chronological because it was a hurried copy paste job

By_the_Pen: there are no quran errors no one in history was able to find anything

ezra_ben_yechezkel: Pen just the opposite, there is little or no Koran truth

ezra_ben_yechezkel: For instance you heard of the tale of Abraham and the idols?

By_the_Pen: your just making claims , you not only do understand anything, you havent read the quran, so ur just bableing on .

ezra_ben_yechezkel: Pen who is Abraham's father in the tale?

By_the_Pen: have u read surah ibraheem(abraham)?

ezra_ben_yechezkel: In English and so I can see where it copied the Talmud But it copied it badly

By_the_Pen: im not here to tell you, i can but , your not here to learn, if u want to learn and compare plz read the quran from link i provided you.

ezra_ben_yechezkel: and IT's obvious the author(s) fo the Koran could not distinquish fact from fable or particularly cared

By_the_Pen: your just making the same claims consistently

ezra_ben_yechezkel: PEN can you prove otherwise?

ezra_ben_yechezkel: FACT Abraham's father is Terah, but the Koran says Azar

By_the_Pen: theres nothing to proove so someone who has not even understood anything about it , if i explain you wont understand and go to another calm

ezra_ben_yechezkel: FACT Abraham, living about 1400 BCE could not have built the Kaabaa which was first built around 300 BCE

ezra_ben_yechezkel: FACT Jonah is a fable, but the Koran copies it as if is wasn't

By_the_Pen: kaaba was build and rebuilt after the flood

ezra_ben_yechezkel: FACT, the Koran has Haman the minister of "PHARAOH" when Haman was a minister of AHASUEROS

By_the_Pen: no haman was not mensioned in no bible or torah thats someone else your refering to

By_the_Pen: haman was not his real name he got that title after

ezra_ben_yechezkel: Pen FACT there was no flood, FACT the Koran copies the Bible and is complerely unaware that it never happened

By_the_Pen: Fact u r throwing claims

ezra_ben_yechezkel: FACT Miriam the sister of Moses was NOT the mother of Jesus, but that is what the Koran says

By_the_Pen: anywayone can say what your saying what proof do u have

ezra_ben_yechezkel: FACT. the earth was not made in 6 days, but that is what the Koran copied from the bible

By_the_Pen: mariyam was not the sister of moses or arron it was refering to her out of respect

By_the_Pen: and it was the jews at the time were saying that

By_the_Pen: the torah says same heavens earth created in 6 days on the 7th was day of rest = sabbath

By_the_Pen: or in arabic = shaabaath: yowmul saabath: yowmul=day of

By_the_Pen: anyways room is free now, u can ask whatever

ezra_ben_yechezkel: So mauch for that, Is it true that Muslims are totally incapable of actual debate/

By_the_Pen: u dont know how to talk to muslims and you insult Allah or muhammad you get dotted

ezra_ben_yechezkel: Appaently you have to kow tow to them because their egos are very small

By_the_Pen: why dont u go to true message room

By_the_Pen: or answering christanity

By_the_Pen: truemessage is in islamic section

ezra_ben_yechezkel: Pen Allah and Mohammad get no special reverence from me

ezra_ben_yechezkel: Considering what even islamic sources say about him, he isn't worth any respect

By_the_Pen: we dont care about you, your addressing us, so whe dont care where u come from

ezra_ben_yechezkel: But you have a room that says Dialog, but only on your terms

By_the_Pen: well Allah guides whom he wills and he doesnt guide those who dont want his guidance

By_the_Pen: no my room fyi i am a muslimah

ezra_ben_yechezkel: Wrong, Alla guides nobody, you never get any messages from Allah

By_the_Pen: your not guided so your saying that.

By_the_Pen: how can u know guidance if your never guided

ezra_ben_yechezkel: That's why i said if Allah is so almighty why is he incapable of using the chat room?

By_the_Pen: you wont

ezra_ben_yechezkel: I am not an intellectual wimp easily led arround by ignorant imams who have to make excuses for their holy book

By_the_Pen: Allah is your creator, weather u like it or not, you will return to him, this life is place were u earn deeds for good or bad and your reward of hell or heaven youll get in the hereafter

ezra_ben_yechezkel: Why the exuceses and packpdaling? if it was true then it should stand for itself

ezra_ben_yechezkel: Notice, if the story about Haman was true it would have NAMED the pharaoh, that's why we KNOW it's a fable

By_the_Pen: your alive and die because of Allah and he gives life and death and day and night he makes us sleep and awake,health etc.

ezra_ben_yechezkel: I'm alive because the sun shines and photosynthetic organisms process the air to create oxygen

By_the_Pen: its not a fable becuase thers historical evidence of his name in the eygptan pharoh tablets they found 20 years ago

ezra_ben_yechezkel: An that's been going one for billions of years

By_the_Pen: its online.

ezra_ben_yechezkel: Pen I want you to go to any egyptian history site and see the thousands of years of pharaoh names

ezra_ben_yechezkel: Pen the Pharaoh in the KORAN has NO NAME, so why do you tell me he was found? Nor is the Koran aware there were more than one Pharaoh

By_the_Pen: haman was not a phroah he was his right hand man and commander of his army

ezra_ben_yechezkel: Pen HAMAN was a minister of Ahasueros in the book of Esther

ezra_ben_yechezkel: It seems that whoever wrote the Koran jumbled up the names and facts, and then people like you have to beleive in no matter how badly it was written

By_the_Pen: the quran mensions it as pharoh its name is not mensioned, but we know he died by drowning in suffication

ezra_ben_yechezkel: Pen There was no such a Pharaoh

ezra_ben_yechezkel: Pen none of them died persuing the Isrealites

By_the_Pen: there are pharoahs found with lungs collapsed from drowning

ezra_ben_yechezkel: in fact there was no exodus, the facts are that the Semitic Kings of lower Egypt were overthown by Pharaoh Ahmose

By_the_Pen: we dont know which i would have to research on this.

ezra_ben_yechezkel: This resounding defeat was turned into a wonderfull victory by 400 years of telephone tag

By_the_Pen: i you can ask someone who knows more about this,

ezra_ben_yechezkel: and the name of the pharaoh, Ahmose was tunred into a Jewish hero Moses

By_the_Pen: ask the room or there is a site: kalamullah.com you can check that out

ezra_ben_yechezkel: Pen i don not trust islamic sites, they are fundamentally dishonest

By_the_Pen: i dont know. Allahu Alam (allah knows best)

ezra_ben_yechezkel: they have to make excuses for the Koran which doesn't have any

By_the_Pen: oh well take what you want

ezra_ben_yechezkel: Allah knows nothing, Apaprently allah only knows what was put into his mouth by people who were ignorant of the solar system

By_the_Pen: but when judging quran and hadith = islam you would have to check islamic sites for islamic facts.

By_the_Pen: for things like pharoh etc. you can check whatever

ezra_ben_yechezkel: The Hadith and the Koran were written by some of the same people

By_the_Pen: there is a system of crediting and perserving and science behind how its preserved and relayed, its not like the bible were it was narrated by paul __ no last name and doesnt have a chain of who narrated it going back to jesus, islam does.

By_the_Pen: all hadiths have narration chain going back to the prophet

By_the_Pen: and levels of crediting it. the science is called usool al hadith. u can look those up

ezra_ben_yechezkel: Not according to many muslims I've talked to as they disbelieve all Hadith, but they can't get themselves to disbelieve the Koran.

By_the_Pen: anyways. i cant answer your question.

ezra_ben_yechezkel: They split the hadith into authentic and inauthentic and each scholar makes his own split

By_the_Pen: whoever u spoken must really have no knowledge of islam or their deviants like shia or sufi who reject hadith.

By_the_Pen: see thats how i know u dont know what your talking about, theres 7 levels of hadith .

ezra_ben_yechezkel: 7 levels of lies?

ezra_ben_yechezkel: "Muslims" insist that the Koran needs supplements to be understood, and lacks details.

By_the_Pen: they range from munkar to sahih mutawathir

ezra_ben_yechezkel: So even you say they are not authentic

By_the_Pen: no the quran say that

ezra_ben_yechezkel: The Koran doesn't know about the hadith

By_the_Pen: the quran says obey Allah and the messenger wa amrin min kum

By_the_Pen: Quran is from Allah and hadith is from Muhammad

ezra_ben_yechezkel: "Do they not consider the Koran with care, If it had been from anyone other than Allah, it would contain many discrepancies (Koran 4:82)."

By_the_Pen: and amrin min kum is from understanding and concensus of the scholars for smaller/newer matters

ezra_ben_yechezkel: And you beleive that Mohamamd said both Koran and Hadith then

By_the_Pen: it would have many contradictions, but it doesnt

By_the_Pen: the quran says we shall protect it and we shall preserve it

ezra_ben_yechezkel: For instnace nowhere in the Koran does it say to pray 5 times a day

ezra_ben_yechezkel: that's from a hadith story

By_the_Pen: that is in hadith

ezra_ben_yechezkel: then why do muslims follow it?

ezra_ben_yechezkel: if the Koran says 3 times and the hadith 5?

By_the_Pen: the quran says to pray, and the hadith explain it from explaination of the prophet

By_the_Pen: quran never said 4 or 3

ezra_ben_yechezkel: The Koran, historically predates any written Hadith and there is no mention of Hadith or the Sunna of the Prophet in what we possess as writings before the third century after Mohammad's death.

ezra_ben_yechezkel: So all of a sudden we have sayings of Mohamamd that nobody knew about for 200 years previous

ezra_ben_yechezkel: since the corpus of the Hadith continued to swell in each succeeding generation, and since in each generation the material runs parallel to and reflects various and often contradictory doctrines of Muslim theological and legal schools, the final recorded product of the Hadith, which date from the 3rd/ 9th century [over 250 years after the death of the prophet], must be regarded as being on the whole unreliable as a source for Mohammad's own teaching and conduct.

By_the_Pen: lol your in no postion to be saying anything about the history of hadith

ezra_ben_yechezkel: I can read what muslims themselves say

By_the_Pen: who narrated the most hadith? and the 1st hadith ?

By_the_Pen: answer that and was it at the time of the prophet or not

By_the_Pen: if u knew your information, you wouldnt be makeing a fool of yourself

By_the_Pen: speaking without knowledge is ignorance

ezra_ben_yechezkel: There are different collections of hadiths that Muslims consider to be the most authentic; the most well known collections are Sahih al Bukhari and Sahih Muslim.

By_the_Pen: wow it toook u that loong to find that out lol thats sooo obvious that didnt answer my question

ezra_ben_yechezkel: So both in the Hadith and the Koran, Mohamamd says that the sun sets in a muddy Stream

By_the_Pen: the quran doesnt say that

By_the_Pen: erza come to this room.. http://chat.paltalk.com/g2/paltalk/1397988803

By_the_Pen: i got dooted in that islamic debate room so i left, who need it

ezra_ben_yechezkel: They will ask thee of Dhu�l-Qarneyn. Say: I shall recite unto you a remembrance of him. Lo! We made him strong in the land and gave him unto every thing a road. And he followed a road till, when he reached the setting-place of the sun, he found it setting in a muddy spring, and found a people thereabout: